45 acp damage human body

Officially last year it was announced that DoD intends to move to hollowpoint ammunition with this new MHS gun (whichever one ends up winning the contract). This whole conversation for over 2+ years is hilarious. laugh at the forensic expert and 2.) I had a Sig P320 and the recoil is not that much greater. I have had to fire both and knowing that the 9 mm is a lighter piece of lead compared to the 45 ACP it is all about placement then. Among other things, this The round should be able to penetrate the body sufficiently to damage internal organs, even from less-than-ideal angles. Bowman, ago Haha. Well judging by the fact that .45 has been killing people since at least the 1870sI'd say it can really screw up your day. Due to the heavy load some people with both types of weapons had malfunctions as the slide was moving too fast causing failure to feed. You hit it dead on its not the cal thats most important its what you can do with it. But to suggest they made the change due to the reasons quoted aboveparticularly because the 9mm supposedly has greater penetration due to less air resistanceis complete hogwash! I shot Master for a while. I have never personally tested 9mm long range, but I have seen 45 Auto results. There are already documented instances where .45 ACP also failed to get reliable stops on a bad guy. The 45 is the preferred for close combat, Common sense will tell you that if you are being overrun! Shot placement rules. Space radiation is made up of protons and all the elements on the periodic table. Even long range shots! Heck a well placed .22 in the head can get the job done. I read a study from an Army medic regarding one shot kills from a handgun. Really lets cut to the chase. But good luck with and please enjoy the new Glock! I have used both calibers personally in combat, and I can say unequivocally and without any doubt whatsoever that the .45 cal DEFINITELY has much more knockdown power than the 9mm which due to its higher velocity tends to punch right through the assailant leaving him wounded but still on his feet and able to return fire. Therefore, the 9mm is probably the correct choice. Ive seen too many people want to hunt but do not have ability to take a animals life. But its easy tell which one of you are the idiots, and those of us that actually know are trying to skate uphill teaching those that dont. On a side note, this is the recent trend move away from larger calibers to smaller ones. ), provide a detailed description of the incident and review the critical importance of choosing the appropriate duty-carry handgun rounds for police officers. Now Im not a scientist, and comparisons of expanded 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP projectiles shows what appears to be little or insignificant difference in diameter; so I cant explain the results perhaps bullet weight plays a role too. The one magor factor that keeps deciding the outcome is if the victim or assailant has the actual ability to kill. I like both, so it is a matter of how balanced and comfortable is it when in use ? Some basic physics explains why the choice of weapon, or more precisely, the choice of bullet, enabled the suspect, James Hodgkinson, who was killed by law enforcement officers, to wreak so much havoc. We carried 19 rounds of 9mm in combat. One thing to note is that for more most applications the military is restricted to FMJ loads. 0.22" Lead air gun pellet requires a minimum of 250 ft/s velocity to penetrate fresh human skin. Pistols are primarily used for close combat. That much is true. Wow now this argument of 9 mm verses 45 acp is stupid. As a medical provider who fractured his back, making a house call in Alaska-dealing with chronic pain issues-I have talk to our local Police Captain. The 9mm travels a great deal faster than the .45, with average muzzle velocity averaging between 1100-1200 FPS. If youre being attacked or in the process of deterring an oncoming attack, fear can have an affect. Just how common are self-defense uses of firearms? However, caliber is at least as important and should not be ignored when choosing a weapon. Shot placement is often cited as a consideration when choosing the right handgun for self defense and for good reason its definitely important. A sniper friend said once if bigger is better throw bricks he was using a 243 cal not a 300 win mag nor a Lupa 338. I have my personal preferences and it is the .45 ACP, next is the 40 S&W, down the line a couple of notches is the 9mm. But Im my opinion, they are tools! I have also recorded a few single-shot kills from a .45ACP, one from as far And the department is no small one. And here is where we get to one of the most important distinctions between military/LE and self-defense use; its also where I have some practical experience, having twice been the victim of home invasions, as well as having to defend myself in public in 4 other separate incidents. Media in category "Human body" The following 64 files are in this category, out of 64 total. It is also logical to assume that when the larger round enters a major body organ, the negative impact upon that organ will be more significant. That is those of us that has and carries guns. Can A 9mm Bullet Kill You Great little weapon !!! If one keeps a weapon in the home for self defense, we believe that it is a duty to know the weapon inside and out and to train with it regularly. Thats funny. Lexipol. It is the concept that will underlie this entire article. However, in early 2015 the door was cracked open, allowing them to choose Glock 19's (chambered in 9mm) instead of their larger counterpart. So the moral of the story, use what you like, justify it any way you can, and enjoy the shooting sports, its fun, but if your life is on the line, well just give me a 45 in a 1911 Please. Blood poured out of his chest cavity, she wrote. and that the data you submit is exempt from Do Not Sell My Personal Information requests. Grinder: I realize this reply is way late in being posted, but I couldnt let that pass. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); 2023 Concealed Carry Inc. All Rights Reserved. They are fine weapons and are certainly capable as a sidearm. I also am a NRA Certified Instructor and gunsmith in Colorado. If I wanted to hit a little harder, I would maybe look for a WC .45 mold in the 220 to The only reason law enforcement and, military use a 9mm is budget. What damage can a .45 caliber bullet do to a human? - Quora For a bullet to be effective for law enforcement, it must be able to penetrate the body between 12 and 18 inches to reach large vital organs to cause rapid blood loss. Our team, our mission, our partners, and more. The rest of the argument as far as damage goes, should be common sense. True enough, but the dead enemy will not lie there or sit-up and shoot or pull the pin on a grenade on you as the wounded enemy might. I believe politics carries the most weight.The military sidearm is the least political concern as far as what other weapons are available for them.The beretta was a good example.Far from the best weapon compared to sig & glock,it got us a deal to put missles in Italy . The amount of energy a bullet radiates into a target is determined by a simple formula taught in high school: Its the product of one half the projectiles mass times the square of the velocity. So youre that guy safe at home on the computer. If we had had 45acp in the hands of the FBI in most every one of these complete inept foul ups they would likely have never happened and the debate would only be Glock or 1911 45 acp. Did you know that Durys has been in business since 1959? While typical SKS rifles do not qualify as assault weapons because they have a fixed magazine and stock and lack a pistol grip, Hodgkinsons gun would have met the criteria. Officers carried them in case their security was breached, and when the enemy was upon them, the kock down power was vital in saving their life. Thank you. 45 muzzle velocity is 500 feet per second and the 9mil is 1500 fps. Indeed, in some studies, such as one conducted by the Law Enforcement Assistance Administration (LEAA), the temporary cavity is assumed to be the primary handgun wounding factor. For me, that is the Sig p226 9mm. Everyone should buy a magnum-powered handgun in .357 or larger caliber and feel completely secure that he or she has the best stopping power. If you know firearms and know how to properly use them than the caliber shouldnt matter. 45 ACP Marine Force Recon Vietnam Vet. Now its true that most of those victims wounds ultimately proved fatal; but its also true that they were far from incapacitated and either did or could have returned fire if they were also armed. A majority of FBI shooters are both faster and more accurate using 9mm Luger versus .40 S&W rounds. cause if they did there would not be so many innocent victims being injured and killed all because they couldnt hit the side of a barn with a soft ball from 5 ft. I was in the military for 15 years Ive been through several handgun changes. The fact is you will rarely ever have perfect conditions to take the well-placed shot. The body's liver, pancreas and kidneys also can make about 1 gram of creatine per day. For you to dissect their writings may be fun but not productive. This type of damage is known as permanent cavity. I would go with the 38 Super + P. Now you have something to rely on. Lee reloading gear. Now lets get back to today in time and we do have very good defense ammo so most of the time Id agree that the 9mm is equal to any other round out there today for human sized targets and smaller as well. The lack of penetration, compared to a 9mm ,from a 45 can be eliminated by using a long barrel , 5+, and +P rounds. So I want a round that will do the trick no matter if he flinches or I do. Copyright 2023 Police1. there again I drive a 502 Gasser for pleasure. Ships To Store. She said she shot him. Clothing fibers can wrap the nose of a projectile, preventing expansion. Both calibers have been proven to be effectively lethal.. Ive usually have to chase guys shot with 9mm. Is S&W so inferior that our domestic brand was eliminated? After 22 years as a combat soldier, I am kind of partial to the .45 ACP, but I shoot modern, guide rod equipped with aftermarket sights, not rack guns. And let us not forget the adrenaline factor. I dont have a dog in that race but it is important to give proper information, not just anything that will satisfy your viewpoint no matter how erroneous. arrow moving at what velocity.200 feet per second? I know the argument for +P with lighter bullets, but I settled on these because they meet my two most important criteria for defensive ammo penetration and accuracy. Shot with 300 win mag at 500 yards. You must have JavaScript enabled in your browser to utilize the functionality of this website. For gun owners, this means that, when you fire a brutally powerful weapon, its going to shove you backwards as well as fly up. While each of them has no direct bearing on incapacitation, they must all be considered. But according to the FBI (First Bunch of Idiots) it isnt possible. Nothing beats a 12 guage with 100 rounds of 00 and slugs. I am not old. Plus: How to contact us. However, if the bullet lacks a JHP configuration, then its not doing as well as it could. For two decades, MARSOC operators have been allowed to carry custom-built Colt 1911s chambered in .45ACP. Of course providing as to the type of ammo. The .22, meanwhile. Thanks for reading and applying some little used common sense to the debate. Both are great bullets, but not really comparable. The larger a projectiles surface area, the greater its ability to transfer its energy to the target, instead of simply penetrating straight through. Smith & Wesson Model 26 | Project: Aftermath Wiki | Fandom 380 ACP There were 3 casings in the bathroom and a couple of more in the living room 10-12 ft away. But what I am struggling to understand is some of the ludicrous logic coming fromvarious sides of the issue. Maybe if you were trying to make 100+ yard shot thatd make a little difference. That still dont make them experts but better than the average person. 9mm vs 45 ACP, WE END THE DEBATE. The Human Torso Test. I like to study real world crime stats and self-defense incidents; and study hundreds of shootings every year. They have to show the bean counters proof for the money to fund the switch of caliber. Where the human component is a significant factor thats been deleted from so many test results. WebThe human body can survive relatively high blast overpressure without experiencing barotrauma. Note how velocity is squared, and mass is halved. end of discussion. My neighbor saw that the guy was afraid of the thing and couldnt get back on target after the 1st shot due to the recoil and his flinching with every shot. Just my thoughts and observations over the years. Concurr on 45 and m14 . Accounting for human anatomy and the fact that an agent may fire at a suspect from a variety of angles, it was established that 12 inches was the minimum On the other hand, a .22 that you can carry easily and put into operation quickly and shoot accurately is probably not a good defense gun/round because to do enough damage requires brain-shot accuracy with each shot. Body 45 Human Acp Damage Cool story for real. We can argue 9 vs 45. What I saw in Korea during the Korean War was that the .45 ACP was the most deadly Whether it hits the shoulder, the leg, arm, hip, whatever. However, there are two factors virtually everyone agrees on: 1. well lets fac the facts ere during th banna war the marines choose the 45 acp end of story. The FBI just did the same thing. In Walmart I carry a p99 Walter. Now they have announced they are moving back to the 9mm in the form of the new Gen5 Glock 17M. You prefer the .45 for stopping power? I Have hair and an angular face. This remained the norm in the FBI until May 2014. The gunman was able to inflict such extensive damage from across a baseball field because he was using a semiautomatic rifle that may have qualified as an assault weapon, akin to a standard infantry combat weapon. Tests show that while it travels at 1,154 feet per second at 500 yards, slower than the .223 at that distance, the AKs bullet can deliver 370 foot-pounds of force, more than the AR. Damage: 55. Rounds that do not hit the intended target are obviously more dangerous to bystanders than a round that hits the target. I think its preference and if you can conceal it. Your story could have just as easily gone the same way but with a Glock 21 (similar to Timothy Gramins experience). knows the sound of a 9m they may say o well Ill chance it but a 40 cal. We put our money behind the 9mm round fired by an extremely well-trained marksman carrying a Glock 19, Mannweiler told Marine Corps Times. Heating effects, occurring mostly around 2.45 GHz (which is the frequency used in microwave ovens) Ionizing effects, which can damage human body and cells; Here is a picture of how the radiowaves penetrate the human body according to the frequency. Opinions all ! Cpl. Bottom line, if you come at me and I shoot you with my 9 mm or my 45, or my 380, its going to hurt like hell! Still, no one should select a caliber based on the assumption that it will expand sufficiently to incapacitate an assailant. Cheap crap. In that encounter, Sgt Gramins shot the suspect 14 times, any one of 6 of those would have almost certainly been fatal wounds. You cannot make a man by standing a sheep on its hind legs. Their over 800 FPS and some approaching 900 FPS with the hotter +P loads. The sheriff convinced the county to issue all the deputies glock 9mms to standardize the weapons and ammunition within the department. If you have been hit with any kind of bullet large, fast, expanding, or otherwise please fill out our survey about your experience after being shot. Between 14 and 45 , flak jacket and 5 mag 20 7.76 stayed in shape. Repeat over and over, and keep doing so even after proficiency is achieved. It doesnt get more damaging that that. But I have some serious doubts about his understanding of external and terminal ballistics. Died instantly. There are many fine little Girls Guns in 380 cal. 9mm doesnt work so well one at a time from a pistol, but we didnt have any expectation that it would. IMHO, everyone of us is different in all ways from head to toe and mostly including the brain and fitting a handgun is different for all. Damage: 22 per pellet. Developed in the early 1960s, the .223 round was first used in Vietnam. That said a handgun is only used to get to a bigger firearm..it was never ment to be used in longer than 30 meter engagements. Youve been practicing with your weapon on a consistent basis. When a handgun is bought for personal protection, whether in the home or on the street, its purpose is the application of deadly force to protect your own life, the lives of others, and to prevent serious physical harm. There are four major handgun founding factors. WebWhen youre in the midst of dealing with an attack, the reduction in blood flow to your hands (along with the chemical changes in your body) will likely result in an increase in your pain threshold. You, ordinary walking around citizen are likely to be accosted from very close range, within say 10 feet to up close. Contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as knock-down power. The only thing that can knock a target down is physiological incapacitation or psychological stress. While there are uninformed opinions regarding stopping power, thankfully, there is also plenty of credible research. EVER! Been hunting 49 years. In the black powder days hollow points had not been invented yet and most bullets were round nose lead so the larger heavier bullet hit harder. Fair testing without the bias of budgets and the need to carry what every one else is carrying would be quite refreshing and lend more to the safety of the officer or soldier who may be fighting his or her life. After decades of witnessing the 45 vs 9 mm battle. Most of these wanna be gangsters are cowards and are used to shooting at people who dont have guns to shoot back. I have a Ruger American 9 mm full size and its twin in a 45 caliber, I will say yes the 45 caliber is a larger round with more in a way push behind it, but I totally agree with the proper placement of that round when firing is the deciding factor. the legendary .50-cal. actually kills Physiology, Acid Base Balance You probably wont feel as much pain in your hands or joints when the rounds go off as when youre practicing on the range. Can someone comment on this? Since doing some research on the new ammo for the .380 acp, Ive decided that 17-22 of penetration from Lehigh & Ruger Personal Defense rounds, I carry the Browning Black Label .380. If I am just going to the range with my son, I prefer the .45. So Marines are now trained to simply kill them. But you have to shoot the gun your most accurate with and most comfortable with but if you dont seat the grip of any pistol in the web of the hand deeply all guns no matter what the caliber the gun will whip in the hand. This doesnt factor shot placement. Practice, practice, practice. But its definitely not easy to carry concealed (especially in hot weather) and Im big guy. With bigger bullets, you will make bigger holes., What makes the .223 potentially deadlier than the .22 is its velocity. I hadnt even gotten halfway through the article before coming to the same conclusion. At 70, I choose to go small & straight! Larry Muhr, A little anecdote. Ive shot both calibers at humans as a soldier and as a LEO and 9mm just doesnt get the same results as 45 in the same number of shots. .45 Actually killed to individual who I shot vs the others who all but one lived. The only other way to end an adversarys life-threatening action is through circulatory collapse. Among other things, this makes it ineffective against body armor. When it does occur, it is not a significant factor in wounding. Semiautomatic rifles dont shoot the largest bullets on the market. Pain is generally physiologically irrelevant, but where present often just makes motivated targets angry and thus, more motivated. Shooting survivors and their caregivers describe a lifetime of chronic pain, repeated surgeries years after being shot, and challenges to everyday living that come from losing parts of vital organs, like a woman who has to buy her son expensive protein shakes after he lost much of his stomach.