who caused the gatlinburg fires?

They knew the high winds were coming days ahead of that Monday. Beginningat 2 a.m. on Sunday November 27 the relative humidity at Indian Grave dropped,getting as low as 17 percent at 8 a.m. and then lingering in the 20s and 30s until 4 am on Monday November 28. It means they eliminated natural causes, such as lightning and volcano eruptions. The radio conversation was fairly early in the day as I recall, maybe 7:30-8:00 am. Interesting time line, fire discovered about 1730 November 23. Who is watching the back door? I would hope that we would fund the National Park Service much better so that cost-cutting is not so high on their priorities. She said smoke had been super heavy. These words are so terribly inadequate but I feel even worse not saying anything at all. Much of the southeastern United States had been suffering extremely dry conditions for two to three months. Too old to start over, fear it could happen again and they could be in their home like I was, or out and out mistrust of local government. I keep up with what is going on nationwide and every time I hear about a monitored or let burn fire that escapes the maximum management area, I write about it. Those are low numbers for the southeastern United States. When we got to the bottom of the mountain, we ran into the Sevier County Electric crew where the road was blocked. It is the duty of the people and Congress to maintain and voice our concerns and opinions to where check and balances work. Mike I appreciate what you said about a time and season for prescribed/monitored fire, and we need prescribed fire in the toolbox. But it is very important to point out that the fire that burned into Gatlinburg was never a prescribed fire. if/when evacuation notice was given. I am sure the Alum Cave trail up Mt. He wanted us to pack and leave. I can only hope that the actions are being undertaken somewhere and by the decision-makers and leaders to think and act differently. A guy in the red pickup rolled down his window and said You have to get out of here! My husband and I turned around, drove back to the Parkway and out the Spur to Pigeon Forge. Would be interesting to dig down to find the ash line (which is probably illegal on federal lands). Will some folks be held accountable for actions or non-actions related to this wildfire incident? Why the Monday morning quarterbacks seems to always get it right, while those in the game make the errors and the scores, winning and losing. Not because I am a teller of fortune. Fire crews were dispatched to a structure fire around 6:30. We saw some trucks when we drove out late morning. Many fire managers in that situation would immediately attack emerging fires very aggressively with overwhelming force, that is, many firefighters on the ground assisted by numerous aircraft dropping water or fire retardant. At the big forest fires in NC and GA, where the federal incident management teams were located, the Incident teams ordered pre-evacuation prior to the arrival of a cold front when strong, gusty winds were forecast. The lines between reality and virtual reality or fake reality are so blurred. They lost phone coverage but didnt activate the Motorola wide area radio system. National Park Service says never push a slower friend down when escaping a bear, Knoxville utilities crews work to restore power after intense storms, Missing elderly Knoxville woman last seen at hospital, police say, Vols drop to 5-seed in SEC Tournament after falling at Auburn, 79-70. fire Sunday morning destroyed their building. For example politicians far away from the event make decisions regarding funding, resources and operations. The wind and the low visibility caused by the smoke made it impossible to fly aircraft over the fire. Youre right change is hard to come by. Humans will never be able to control or suppress all unwanted fires-structure, chemical or wildland. He told me he was scared to drive the truck-its a lot more cumbersome in the local terrain than his little Outback. There is room for all to be as important as the other, and hold all of these ideals up at the same time, to honor and to debate. Jeannine, its obvious that you write from the heart, and you write so well it is indeed inspirational. That mall is also rigidly enforced. Jon Binhammer had an excellent point about the hemlocks. Once the winds came on day 5 or 6, there was nothing anyone could do. He promised a committee to study what happened and there has been no word since. I hear of those who didnt leave until 9:00 that night. We were there from May until early November. Many on that team are not NPS employees, but are highly experienced wildfire fighters. Managers may need to keep resources in reserve for initial attack on new fires rather than a Hit it with all you have the Moment it breaks out. strategy. Its community and people that have jobs. May God look out for all of you in your time of loss. The leafless trees allowed more sunlight to hit the fuel, drying it out even more. This goes all the way to our Congress and irresponsible, blind, budget cutting exercises. I have wanted to learn because I dont know enough to say much, but when I read your two posts about the loss of your cabin, and your escape, I felt I had to say, Im so sorry, to you, and probably speak for many many others who did not find this blog and find an avenue to learn, listen and to speak. All rights reserved. And no doubt books both factual and not on this event. My question to the Deputy Super: If the Chimney Tops Fire 2 of Nov 23rd to 28th, 2016 could not have been extinguished before the winds came; and there was plenty of time to act before the winds came; then how come GSMNP fire crews apparently extinguished the first Chimney Tops Fire of Nov 12/13th, 2016? Why did they wait until Monday to do a voluntary a evacuation or were the city father is involved in the decision not to panic the thousands and thousands of people still there for the Thanksgiving holiday. I think this is more often than not the case. they may be using too wide a brush to place blame. That doesnt mean excessive chainsaw mania; but it doesnt mean going to the other extreme with the type of forestry management in some of our Parks and other public lands. Suggestion, contact Dolly Parton or representatives of her holdings and give her (them) the emergency phone line to Global Supertankers. Since we had been planning all day to go downtown to play trivia at Smoky Mountain Brewery, we left the house about 5:55PM. There will be legal repercussions because of incompetence. The extremely dry conditions in the area, though, should have raised the concern level. A good example of the kind of human factors that continue to get in the way of better preparedness and change for the good is the backlash in which one reporter from NC received when she asked tough questions of some officials. Down hemlocks are mostly just gone. But from what I have read the failure in this situation was in following procedure, so what can be added to have averted this fire and its terrible deadly consequences? It was the hottest summer we ever felt. In addition, the valley above Gatlinburg, drained by LeConte Creek, has had enormous numbers of dead hemlock standing and fallen. Even this article seems to skirt around some of the issues and miss the depth of analysis it needs to effect meaningful change. . Good incident managers welcome open discussion and critique to learn and improve for future incidents. I later learned that Sevier County pays for an emergency notification system called Code Red Alert. I understand the excellent point made in the article that history in the Smokies area would expect less of a problem than out West. All weekend, my husband and daughter followed the fire on the Chimney Tops 2 facebook page NPS had established. The report stated the roof started to collapse, and the building was deemed too unsafe to work inside. Visibility was bad and it was hard to breathe as we unpacked our truck. The 2 juvenile defendants have been charged with the fire of Nov 23rd, 2016; but there has been NO apparent media release by officials and investigators as to whether these defendants started the fire of Nov 14th, 2016? Why the complacency? Everyone knew how dry it was. The park should have been begging for help and putting out warnings all week end!!! Birmingham City close training ground after fire causes damage I can only say that I had no peace at all whatsoever after the first word I heard of the terrible fire there .. With all due respect to your comment, you seem to be a bit condescending toward some folks asking very legitimate questions; and giving the impression you are trying to the get the heat off the back of NPS officials. For the most part, the issues are with the Upper Brass. Former Gatlinburg fire chief reflects as new wildfires burn - WTVF The one picture showing a PVC clean-out with charring on it is a very good example of a very fast, hot torch of flame blasting a relatively small area. Photos: Fire in Gatlinburg, Tennessee | Photo Galleries | herald There were emergency vehicles blocking Motor Nature Trail. GATLINBURG, Tenn. UPDATE (Monday): Firefighters discovered a body in the rubble of these fires, our ABC affiliate WATE reported Monday morning. I called Bob, boys and I got a bite to eat for supper so we wouldnt be a bother to our friends whose house we were going to wait out the evening. Alice Hagler was reported missing by her family and later confirmed dead. First rule of any structure fire or wildfire. The Spur between Pigeon Forge to Gatlinburg is open from Pigeon Forge to the Gatlinburg Welcome Center. I have to assume that the city of Gatlinburg felt that since my road was county property that I was on my own. Not to lay blame or punishment but as a real learning tool for improvement of service provision. They did too little, too late. Later it changed to a mandatory evacuation. I can picture all They didnt and now its the property owners problem, they havent offered any clean up assistance, free dumping fees, no permit cost to rebuild, and certainly no financial help. On Friday, Gatlinburg city officials released a report detailing the downtown fire on Oct. 9. Under ideal conditions they can temporarily slow the spread, which may be effective if firefighters on the ground can move in quickly totake advantage of the short termchange in fire behavior by constructing firelines, stopping the spread at that location. That is when I said to myself Where the hell is TEMA?. Intention is important, even in a court of law, intention ways heavily on the sentencing. The DA in Sevier County has put a gag rule in effect since the get go to protect the teeneagers involved. Firefighting aircraft were not used until helicopters dropped water on the fire Sunday afternoon, November 27 four days after it started. Along with other Park issues like un-managed timber (very limited burns, mostly fields, not forested areas), we concluded the saying demolition by neglect. He should loose his job and be prosecuted for this mess he created. There will be no access to Wiley Oakley or Westgate from the Spur. Gatlinburg Fire 2016: The Start. Im hoping at this point, its going to be pretty quick. Common since would tell you a mountain fire in wind and drought would move very fast!!! The massive Gatlinburg wildfires, which began in November, caused the deaths of 14 people, injured 175 others and destroyed homes and towns all around eastern Tennessee. January 4, 2017 at 5:26 pm It was shaking the car as we drove. I am not holding my breath. Stanton wanted to go but I was afraid to for several reasons. Mother nature always bats last Sad chain of eventsonce again. I can hear it now, hasnt the NPS learned anything in the past 10-20 yrs? Tunica, MS, from our area near Kansas City, to arrive late evening, that day, in Tunica. Now I can only imagine what children or adults with issues might have gleaned from this message being broadcast. One of the owners of the impacted businesses called a contractor to demolish a damaged portion of the building. People were ready to leave their home in 15 min. They had access to the same fire flight info from Sundays flyover that other agencies had. Once again: the questions remain unanswered. Will we fail forward? I dont understand, but I dont judge. While I had the privilege is having dinner with the NPS director at a prescribed fire conference I am just a retired rx fire practitioner. When boys and I got back home around 3:45, the winds were beginning to pick up and branches were beginning to fall. Any person involved in any sort of firefighting/fire ecology/fire control/fire management profession learns these basic fire physic scientific principals from day oneeither from formal training or through hands on fire behavior observations . Ive noted the contrast between how the Incident Management Teams approached the fires compared to the NPS. I know its good and natural periodically to let forest fires burn, but under the extreme drought conditions in this area, I was uneasy that fires werent being put out. Thats totally untrue. Late Monday afternoon the Gatlinburg Fire Department began informing some residents of a voluntary evacuation. Remembering the Gatlinburg Wildfires five years later - WBRC Accountability is important and paying the price for our decisions is too. I just assumed that others would be leaving Gatlinburg out of concerns similar to mine. A little later the local TV news reported the fire had crossed the road and was headed up the mountain behind the Park Vista. The big, dead hemlocks are light grey with a circular limb pattern as viewed from the air. Honor. One only has to imagine a single downed power line starting a structure fire at the same time the wildfire was approaching to understand how the great loss of property and life actually happened. Shame on you. Just a quick comment per above posts. Person killed in downtown Gatlinburg fire identified Asked if I knew if there were any other people down in that area. Thats perfect Johnny. The action taken by firefighters on Monday was defensive, to protect threatened structures at a nearby National Park Service picnic ground. National Park Service says never push a slower friend down when escaping a bear, Knoxville utilities crews work to restore power after intense storms, Missing elderly Knoxville woman last seen at hospital, police say, Vols drop to 5-seed in SEC Tournament after falling at Auburn, 79-70. the downtown fire on Oct. 9 that killed one person and injured another. I certainly agree there are definitely consequences for our actions, for some more than others. The forecast issued Sunday included this text in the Discussion section: High pressure will hang on for Sunday with sunny skies and above normal temperatures. As my husband was carrying things to the car at 5:00PM, a white SUV came by. Shortly after that power was lost to the station and data stopped being recorded. And not only they had time to evacuate but I called 911 Monday night on Nov. 28 2016 and ask if there was any evacuation orders for Gatlinburg and was told By The 911 operator no not at this time Later found out the whole place was on fire at the same time I called 911 ( WHY ) was I lied to ? I would describe this as flooding in Pigeon Forge & Gatlinburg Tennessee, but certainly heavy rain rising the water levels throughout. However, I still wonder why there has been no word from the governor about the post-fire review team he promised. Why are there not more prescribed and controlled burns being conducted? This story Im telling is all factual you see I have a problem with anyone exaggerating events as well as lying so I tell the truth regardless of how unpopular it may be. These fires were allowed to cook with little or no suppression action. They probably feel they are fortunate and safe because they will not speak out on the topic until the criminal charges are completed against the two youth that perpetrated this fire but they would be foolish to do so as time just continues to churn the anger. Our government has been paying these communications companies millions in tax breaks and tax dollars to provide cellular and other affordable services to rural America, and they are failing to do so or providing the services at outrageous rates. Will the NPS Fire Management leadership at the Regional, NIFC and Washington DC levels admit to some very poor policy and decision making problems associated with the Chimney Top 2 disaster? In addition thorough explanations could have been given for the reasons for calling for the Voluntary Evacuation and could have been published. You can only manage one of those. The GRSM person that requested the Spot wrote: Concerned about ridgetop winds with the coming front. During fire suppression efforts, crews found one person dead inside the structure. Because we were heading home to Ohio early Tuesday morning, we packed our suitcases and put them in the car. Also I just came across a facebook page showing two views of the same interchange in Gatlinburg at 10:28 and 10:52. Holding the responsible people accountable is the only course of action that honors what was lost. The park needs to share accountability in this situation, and all of us who have formerly worked in fire realize this. Lied too by Gatlinburg or Sevier County officials? Flies north of fire (s) in TN. Arson charges dropped against teens accused in deadly Gatlinburg - WJLA Officials said three people. Our world is complex and it is a system of interacting parts, we all need to start thinking more globally (meaning systemic and how each part interacts with the other) in our processes and understand how each choice, decision and action we take personally and as a group affect all the other parts. With that all happening before lunch. Report: Gatlinburg fire caused $7 million in damages. Thank-you Bill for your through and in depth analysis of this wildfires chain-of events. If an aircraft will be en route to a lit helibase or airport, they can drop 30 minutes after sunset then fly to the lit facility. People died and lost so much and that is absolutely tragic! On November 11 some hikers found a fire built in the middle of the trail on brushy mountain trail. This is a developing story. If the defendants didnt ignite the 14th fire, who did and is this 14th fire under investigation? She said I dont think its necessary for you to leave home with children and dog at this point. If they do work as a pair, do they set multiple fires in the same area? Copyright 2022 WVLT. Before we got in the car, we each took photos of the approaching fire with our cell phones. I checked historical aerial photos on the USGS website because the die-off of the hemlock has been primarily over the past 10 years in the southeastern Appalachians. I would like to know if the same two kids are also responsible for the first Chimney fire? Even if the new construction doesnt suffer from the eventual degradation of the old foundation, years after you have rebuilt and want to sell your cabin, due to prior disclosure malls when you tell a prospective buyer that your foundation went through the 100 year fire which burned your foundation at 1400 to 3000 F, only a fool would buy it. Are county officials telling people about the Code Red Alert System? We got a text message. Fire kills 1, destroys businesses in downtown Gatlinburg, Tenn Undoubtedly, the current management of our natural resources will come before the Judgments of the Almighty; for human lives were lost in this fire. The smoke steadily became thicker as the days passed and friends were showing pictures of the Chimneys on fire. It was a very horrible dream and I had qualms about my trip before I arrived in Branson. The Great Smoky Mountains National Park Facebook page reported (on Monday 11/28 at 1046am) that gusting winds have caused the fire to spot across the ridges in the Chimney Tops and Bull head Ridge Area. As a former FF, their claim that they could have never put it out if they tried from day one is BS. Downtown Gatlinburg Fire at Puckers Sports Grill & More (OCT 9, 2022) Just wondering was it God who drastically cut the federal budgets for NPS, Wildland firefighters and other resources or was that Congress? At 10AM we drove to Sevierville to buy more materials (to eventually add to the bonfire). Another 2.3 inches accumulated that day by the time it stopped at 7 p.m. The leadership tetrahedron if you will, the area where all the parts come together based on the past, the current, the potential and the possible. Those with information are urged to contact the Tennessee Arson Hotline at 1-800-762-3017 or the GFD at 865-436-5112. Teddy Roosevelt, who as you may know, was instrumental in establishing our national parks. Pacific Buddhist Academy set to hold 17th annual Taiko Festival, the 14th annual Kualoa Hakipuu canoe festival back after a few years of kind of being shuttered because of the pandemic.